https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7542621
I think John William Ballard may have been my 3x great uncle.
I’m trying to link this naval record above of a John William Ballard with the John William Ballard of 7&9 Falkland Street Liverpool on the 1871 and 1881 census. He married Sarah Ellen Atherton at St Simons Liverpool 6th June 1869. He states his father as William Ballard a tinsmith. This William I believe to be my 3 x great grandad born Ireland 1817 on 1871 census for Liverpool married to Jane from Isle of Jersey. On the download of the naval record which I can’t upload it states that John William Ballard joined a ship in Liverpool… I can’t read the ship’s name.
I know much about the Ballards who seem to have originated in Dublin then on to Drogheda and Liverpool. This John William Ballard was born in Newry and on the map, Dublin, Drogheda and Newry are on a main route to Belfast. On John William’s marriage document I notice the person undertaking the ceremony is Philip O’Flaherty… conducting a c of e wedding? Sounds a catholic Irish name to me.
Any help in connecting the naval record to the census and marriage is most appreciated.
Regards
David

Thanks Bert.
Do you think it likely that John William
Ballard on the marriage entry and 1871/1881 census entries(Falkland St) is related to my 3 x great grandfather William Ballard born 1817 Ireland living in Liverpool 1871 with Jane his wife from Isle of Jersey? And to the 1841 census entry for the William’s parents and siblings in Liverpool. Ballard is quite a rare name in Ireland. But they are all tinsmiths. If you remember Bert, you managed to connect William to his family(siblings and parents) on the 1841 census in a previous post and you discovered that William’s mum, siblings and spouses moved out to the USA ending up in Cape Elizabeth, Maine, USA. You also discovered that William’s parents had been born in Dublin( William Ballard and Ann McBride.) Both Ballard and McBride names appear in Catholic and Protestant church entries. McBride can be Irish and Scottish. My ancestry DNA test has directly linked me to Americans with the Ballards of Cape Elizabeth in their family trees. Also, William Francis Ballard ( born 1849 Liverpool) therefore could be John William’s brother. He married an Eliza Winnifred Harding who was living on Falkland street as well.
Regards

PS
Eliza Winifred’s mother (Mary Ann Harding) had fallen pregnant as a servant and no father is on birth certificate. She later married Henry Woodward of Falkland Street. I wondered if she had been a servant in his house and he was the father. On the baptism for Eliza her grandad’s name is recorded.(Thomas Harding). I understand Falkland St had some big houses??? A posh street?
John William had a tin trunk manufacturing business. William Ballard (1817) was a master tinsmith eventually… so also may have had a little business and this may have been why they didn’t want to go to the USA with the rest of the family.

Well what I was thinking was perhaps the naval connection isn’t correct but the family connection from John William to William, William Francis snd the Ballards who went to Cape Elizabeth seems likely. Perhaps the John William sailor is a different chap, unconnected. What do you think?
Regards
Ps
Do you have a link to the Mercury snippets Bert?

Thanks for your help!

Plus I have a hunch that JW’s mother was not William Ballard’s (1817) wife Jane Ballard. On his naval papers it says that his mother was happy for him to do 10 years in the Navy and ‘they’ has been crossed through and ‘but she has’ is written above. Perhaps William departed Ireland without the mother and Jane Ballard nee Dawson is the second partner?! No record of William and Jane’s marriage can be found.

Here is the entry.

When you think about it… he signed up for 10 years in the navy… taking him to 1864. But in 1871 owned 2 houses in Falkland Street… seems unlikely to be the same person.

It does seem a big coincidence that 2 John William Ballards with same year of birth, both born in Ireland are there.
But that’s assuming the navy boy remained in Liverpool… perhaps he just entered the navy there.

There you go… it must tie the naval record with the JW tin plate worker.

Naval document

I’ve put a post on Ireland Reaching Out Website… maybe someone can find more info over there.
Regards and thanks again for helping me out Bert!
David

I have read JW’s obituary in the Liverpool weekly courier. It states that he was in the Black Watch at one time and had lived in Drogheda. My great grandfather John Richard Ballard MM who died on the Somme had reference to his uncle made in a newspaper article, stating that his uncle had fought in the Black Watch. So I am at least convinced that the tinsmith JW is indeed the brother of my 2x great grandfather William Francis Ballard born Liverpool 1849. JW had also been in the Masonic lodge in Liverpool and interestingly Robert F Ballard had become the head of the Masonic Lodge in Portland Maine. But no mention of the Navy. That remains unproven.
Regards
David

It was a lengthy obituary so maybe they just missed it out or as you say were unaware.
Regards

What is interesting to me is that the obituary of JW and that of Robert F Ballard out in Portland Maine read very similarly. Obviously people who lived out their Presbyterian faith and made a real difference in the place they lived.
And created a real life for themselves away from Ireland. The same zeal I saw in my own dad and his brothers who moved from Yorkshire down south joining up in the army and my uncle to Australia, Canada, Ireland and now in Spain!

Hi folks, that's the record for the parent's marriage in 1839 and I have that from Lancs OPC.

Apologies, the MMN is Wright. I was working on Walker in my tree earlier!

Maybe they did not register all of the children, who are shown on the 1851 census here:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8860/images/LANHO107…

Thanks for that!
Seems like a lot of people living in Jordan St… mostly Irish-born and labourers. Do you know when the court-style housing was demolished in that area? 1950’s?

Thanks Mary
Regards
David

Thanks again J

Thank you both for your comments. Mary, I had bought that death certificate and it is not her, but yes, there seemed to be many different ways to spell Metcalfe back then. Bertie, I am starting it work my way through some of those cemeteries. There is a lot there. Over 1000 images for Anfield for just one year. Like a needle in a haystack (or may not even be in the haystack). but I am on it. Again, many thanks. Have a nice weekend. Robbie

Sure. No problem. Is it OK to post the image of it here, or do you just want the details here. Else, send me an email at robbiejax@aol.com and I can email you the image. I also have an image of her burial order. She was buried in Everton Cemetery. Robbie

My Mary was the wife of Robert Metcalfe, a butcher. Robert was still alive in 1893 (died in 1898). This Mary is the widow of Edwin, a shipwright.

There is another Mary (Mary Ann Metcalfe) in the GRO who died in 1895. She was the wife of George Antony Metcalfe, a billiard table maker. I have the certificate for her also. She is the one buried in Everton.

So I think I may have found her. In Darwen, in 1897. When I said that she didnt go live with any of her children, technically true but that is where I think I found her.

She had a daughter who had died in Blackburn in 1894. She was still young, with young children. I am thinking that Robert and Mary must have moved to Darwen to help look after her daughter's family. And Mary died there. Robert must have moved back to Liverpool after his wife died. This is just a hypothesis right now, and I still need to try to prove it out and find her grave.

Anyway, thank you both for your contributions. I know you probably feel like you didnt do much but sometimes you just need to sound it out to someone else for something new to pop into your own brain. I am sure you can relate.

btw, can I ask another question without opening a new thread. This same couple had a stall in Great Homer Street market 1870's or 1880's. Do you know if there are any records on the market back then? And maybe some photos of what the market may have looked like.

Thanks again, Robbie

Thank you both again. I was able to find the graves of both Mary and her daughter in Darwen Cemetery. I have reached out to Friends of Darwen Cemetery to see how I can go about finding if there are headstones. Bertie, yes that was a head scratcher when Margaret just assumed a middle name, especially as she went to Barrow in Furness to get married. But I bought the marriage certificate and it is definitely her. And I have a DNA match with one of her descendants which proves the connection. Robbie

Thanks both. Can't find anything online apart from what has been mentioned.

I believe that it is 7 years before a person can be declared dead. I did wonder if he never actually drowned, and somehow survived, but nothing in any newspaper and no other deaths that could fit the age range going forward.

Thanks for replies.
Yes, I have accessed those sites, but with limited success. In fact, back in 2007 I completed the trees for myself & my wife going back 250 years & found 550 ancestors & their relatives. Just two brick walls remain, so decided to open my files again. One - a Ships Engineer(from Scotland) who died in Seaforth in 1912, and started out in Birkenhead in 1861 as an Iron Turner. I have all his BMD & Census records(except for when he was at sea), but the family know nothing of which Merseyside ships he sailed on. His Scottish father was a Ships Carpenter who died between 1863 & 1868 and possibly spent his final years on Liverpool registered vessels. I have all his Scottish records, except for his death. I have one possible candidate who "died at sea" on a Liverpool registered vessel (the Orion) in 1865 according to Kew records.
To delve further, both Kew & the Liverpool Maritime Museum just say - I need to visit or contact a local genealogist.
So next question, please, is - does anyone know of a reputable person on Merseyside ? (Hey - me late scouser Da would've said " watch out for scallies"!). For health reasons, I cannot do a 700 mile round trip down to "The Pool" & back, sorry.

Regards, Simo

Ships Engineer = Archibald Simpson b.1839 Kincardine, Scotland. Moved to Birkenhead in 1860. On 1861 Census - down as an "Iron Turner" (Ships Boiler Maker). Over the next 50 years - flitted backwards & forwards over the Mersey to different residences. Finally dying in Seaforth in 1912(On the West Derby BMD Records).In latter years - down as "Ships Engineer".
Ships Carpenter = Archibald's Father - James Simpson b.1813 Kincardine. Served for a few years on Hudson Bay vessels in the 1840's/50's. Absent on the 1861 Census, but still alive on Archibald's Birkenhead Marriage Cert. in 1863. That wife died & Archibald remarried in 1868, but that Birkenhead Cert. said "Father deceased". There i s definitely no Scottish record for his death in that 5 year period.
However, there is a record of a death of a "James Simpson" in 1865 - aboard a Liverpool Registered Vessel - the Orion(reg.26008) - just says "At Sea". That record doesn't give his occupation, age, parents or wife's name(Margaret), just said "Fever". My James would've been 52 in 1865. Perhaps, just perhaps, father & son worked for the same shipping company. Maybe, just maybe, on the same vessel - the Orion ! But, and its a big but - there were hundreds of "James Simpsons" dying in Scottish & English records for the mid 1860's.
As many FH enthusiasts ken, not all Victorian records contained correctly spelled names - so "Simson" was sometime used. Another close ancestral Scottish/Merseyside family was the Connely's - there are several flippin versions of that name. The posh educated Lancashire/Cheshire record keepers/census enumerators had to put up with thousands & thousands of Jocks & Paddies who flocked to Merseyside for work, and who had pretty broad accents. And sadly, many were illiterate.
I found out years ago, that the LDS "Family Search" records, which are massive - took those miss-spelt names at face value & hence were a bit confusing. I always checked them against OPR's & Registrar's BMD records.

Regards, Simo

Many thanks Mary. Yours gratefully, Simo.

I apologise for the delay in responding but I was away for a week. Thank you for the suggestion. There is a pattern to the names used by the Rideing family which does indicate this is a likely link.