Join us for full benefits and know that ‘You’ll never search alone’ with your Liverpool and South West Lancashire Family History Society.

John William Ballard Navy record

By adesso |
General Genealogy

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7542621
I think John William Ballard may have been my 3x great uncle.
I’m trying to link this naval record above of a John William Ballard with the John William Ballard of 7&9 Falkland Street Liverpool on the 1871 and 1881 census. He married Sarah Ellen Atherton at St Simons Liverpool 6th June 1869. He states his father as William Ballard a tinsmith. This William I believe to be my 3 x great grandad born Ireland 1817 on 1871 census for Liverpool married to Jane from Isle of Jersey. On the download of the naval record which I can’t upload it states that John William Ballard joined a ship in Liverpool… I can’t read the ship’s name.
I know much about the Ballards who seem to have originated in Dublin then on to Drogheda and Liverpool. This John William Ballard was born in Newry and on the map, Dublin, Drogheda and Newry are on a main route to Belfast. On John William’s marriage document I notice the person undertaking the ceremony is Philip O’Flaherty… conducting a c of e wedding? Sounds a catholic Irish name to me.
Any help in connecting the naval record to the census and marriage is most appreciated.
Regards
David

Thanks Bert.
Do you think it likely that John William
Ballard on the marriage entry and 1871/1881 census entries(Falkland St) is related to my 3 x great grandfather William Ballard born 1817 Ireland living in Liverpool 1871 with Jane his wife from Isle of Jersey? And to the 1841 census entry for the William’s parents and siblings in Liverpool. Ballard is quite a rare name in Ireland. But they are all tinsmiths. If you remember Bert, you managed to connect William to his family(siblings and parents) on the 1841 census in a previous post and you discovered that William’s mum, siblings and spouses moved out to the USA ending up in Cape Elizabeth, Maine, USA. You also discovered that William’s parents had been born in Dublin( William Ballard and Ann McBride.) Both Ballard and McBride names appear in Catholic and Protestant church entries. McBride can be Irish and Scottish. My ancestry DNA test has directly linked me to Americans with the Ballards of Cape Elizabeth in their family trees. Also, William Francis Ballard ( born 1849 Liverpool) therefore could be John William’s brother. He married an Eliza Winnifred Harding who was living on Falkland street as well.
Regards

PS
Eliza Winifred’s mother (Mary Ann Harding) had fallen pregnant as a servant and no father is on birth certificate. She later married Henry Woodward of Falkland Street. I wondered if she had been a servant in his house and he was the father. On the baptism for Eliza her grandad’s name is recorded.(Thomas Harding). I understand Falkland St had some big houses??? A posh street?
John William had a tin trunk manufacturing business. William Ballard (1817) was a master tinsmith eventually… so also may have had a little business and this may have been why they didn’t want to go to the USA with the rest of the family.

However likely it may seem there's a family connection, I can't put the final nail in the coffin. There was a JWB who joined the HMS Victory on the 6 June 1855, if being the same chap it would have been his 18th birthday. There are some snippets referring to JWB in the Liverpool Mercury which may be of interest to you, unfortunately none mentioning the Navy.

Well what I was thinking was perhaps the naval connection isn’t correct but the family connection from John William to William, William Francis snd the Ballards who went to Cape Elizabeth seems likely. Perhaps the John William sailor is a different chap, unconnected. What do you think?
Regards
Ps
Do you have a link to the Mercury snippets Bert?

You're welcome,
JWB, Royal Navy, born 6 June, 1837.
JWB married Liverpool, 6 June, I wonder if they wanted to marry on his birthday?

Plus I have a hunch that JW’s mother was not William Ballard’s (1817) wife Jane Ballard. On his naval papers it says that his mother was happy for him to do 10 years in the Navy and ‘they’ has been crossed through and ‘but she has’ is written above. Perhaps William departed Ireland without the mother and Jane Ballard nee Dawson is the second partner?! No record of William and Jane’s marriage can be found.

Signatures look a little different. Could have changed over time… it’s hard to say… many people wrote in the same hand back then or similarly but the B on Ballard looks different and the J on John. What do you think?
Also speed in which it would have been done… perhaps writing more neatly on the marriage record???

Re; Certificate for Boys,
I read that as no written permission has been received and ( but he is) willing to be entered for 10 years.

When you think about it… he signed up for 10 years in the navy… taking him to 1864. But in 1871 owned 2 houses in Falkland Street… seems unlikely to be the same person.

It does seem a big coincidence that 2 John William Ballards with same year of birth, both born in Ireland are there.
But that’s assuming the navy boy remained in Liverpool… perhaps he just entered the navy there.

There no evidence that 2 JWBs had the same birthday, the connection could be one was born on the 6 June and the other married on the 6 June. The tentative assumption they wanted to marry on his birthday.
It could be the Family History devil is toying with us.

David,
I've seen all the records available to me and I do lean towards the Tinsmith and the Navy chap being the same person, however I haven't come across conclusive proof to say job done. Hopefully one day a record may be found with JWBs (Tinsmith) date of birth on it. At this present time only the name and place of birth match as far as I am aware and that in the past has sent many down the wrong path. Hopefully someone can chip in with records they have available to search.

A lady from Ireland on the Ireland reaching out website found some things from the Liverpool Courier. JW was an Orangeman and for a time the leader of the Liverpool Orange order. He was living in Drogheda, born in Newry. The Ballards I already knew had been in Drogheda where Robert F had been born. So that ties in with my Ballard family. Dublin in early 1700’s was predominantly Protestant and that’s where first Ballards were born.
Regards

I’ve put a post on Ireland Reaching Out Website… maybe someone can find more info over there.
Regards and thanks again for helping me out Bert!
David

I have read JW’s obituary in the Liverpool weekly courier. It states that he was in the Black Watch at one time and had lived in Drogheda. My great grandfather John Richard Ballard MM who died on the Somme had reference to his uncle made in a newspaper article, stating that his uncle had fought in the Black Watch. So I am at least convinced that the tinsmith JW is indeed the brother of my 2x great grandfather William Francis Ballard born Liverpool 1849. JW had also been in the Masonic lodge in Liverpool and interestingly Robert F Ballard had become the head of the Masonic Lodge in Portland Maine. But no mention of the Navy. That remains unproven.
Regards
David

Unless it's déjà vu I've seen mention of the Black Watch before, perhaps in another thread. You would think in the same obit, mention of the Navy would have been made had he served unless the person who penned the obit wasn't aware.

What is interesting to me is that the obituary of JW and that of Robert F Ballard out in Portland Maine read very similarly. Obviously people who lived out their Presbyterian faith and made a real difference in the place they lived.
And created a real life for themselves away from Ireland. The same zeal I saw in my own dad and his brothers who moved from Yorkshire down south joining up in the army and my uncle to Australia, Canada, Ireland and now in Spain!