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Ann Christian Radcliffe born 1836

By janeb |
General Genealogy

Hi
Any help on the following would  be great.
Ann Christian Radcliffe was born in late 1836 to Richard Radcliffe a joiner and Ann Christian and baptise in St Peters 8th Jan 1837. I have found her in 1841 1851 and 1861 census then she disappears. She is not the Ann Radcliffe who married in 1867 1890 1892 and I have not found a death for her either. In 1861 she is loving with her father and mother, brother William and her fathers grandson John James Radcliffe whose birth I have still been unable to find. Many years ago the forum members helped me with John James and came to the conclusion that he was the illegitimate son of possible Jane Eliza Radcliffe who was born in 1843 but I wondered if Ann Christian could have been the mother. Any pointers would be wonderful thanks

It would help if you were to give the detail from at least one of the censuses, where they were living, what ages the parents gave and where everybody was born often helps with a search.

Presumably the father's name on the marriage in 1867 doesn't match Richard, a joiner.

Apologies - here are the details 

Richard Radcliffe father 1809-1864 born Isle of Man married Liverpool 1834 to Ann christian born around1800 in isle of Man

Siblings William 1835-1876  Margaret 1838-1841  Richard 1841-1919  Jane Eliza 1843- 1906 Catherine 1846-1932

1841 census HO107/566/21 Radcliffe family Father Richard Mother Ann siblings William Margaret

1851 census HO107/2190 Radcliffe family at 6 Boundary St Father Richard joiner mother Anne  siblings William Richard Jane E and Catherine 

1861 census RG3/2720 shows Ann aged 24 at 6 Boundary Street with her father Richard Ratcliffe (sic) aged 57 a house carpenter wife Anne aged 6 and siblings Richard 19 apprentice blacksmith Catherine 15 and John as a 2 year old grandson of Richard

1867 marriage banns Ancestry  shows husband John Thorogood father as John Radcliffe a shoemaker 

I hope this clarifies and many thanks

Jane

 

I thought I would update you on the Radcliffe mysteries and thank this forum for its help. In the end I discovered that Ann Christian Radcliffe most probably is the mother of John James Radcliffe, my great grandfather. John James Ashton's birth was registered 4th November 1858. He was born at 1 Court Boundary Rd Liverpool, the address the Radcliffe family lived in in the 1850s and 60s. His father was John McDonald Ashton a soldier with the 54th Foot, and his mother was Ann formerly Radcliffe. John James gave his fathers occupation as soldier on his marriage certificate. John James died in July 1936 and his age was given as 77 so this all seems to fit. John McDonald Ashton died in November 1867 in West Derby union workhouse from infected leg abscesses caused by tropical infection in Cawnpore India where he served. I have still to find Ann Radcliffes death but again it may be Ann Ashton so I have two possibilities to look for in 1863. If both of John James Ashton/Radcliffe's parents died before he was 10 it would explain why in subsequent censuses he was living with various different members of the Radcliffe family until his marriage in 1883. Thanks ago for your help over many years. Jane

Shaun - apologies for the delay but many thanks for this information. I had missed these papers on find my past.
I can't find any information on John McDonald Ashtons parents other than the information on his baptism in 1828 which gives their names as John and Margaret. I found a death of a Christiana Radcliffe aged 28 in 1865who was a charwoman living at 7 Dinorben(?) St. I cannot find any other records of a Christian Radcliffe in the 1861 census so I wonder if this person is Ann Christian Radcliffe? Otherwise I am still chasing!

Jane,
Something to ponder though tentative.
The earlier born siblings of John McDonald Ashton were Sarah Ann, 1824 and Joshua, 1826, both with parents, John a Book Keeper and Margaret. Baptism address for both, Cunliffe Street.

The only marriage in Liverpool in close proximity to those births is that of John Ashton and Margaret Seed, November 1823, unfortunately no occupation recorded.
John McDonald Ashton having a surname as a middle name may suggest Scottish ancestry, a Scottish tradition.

Perhaps the apple hasn't fallen far from the tree, Margaret Seed, Bn 1800, and some siblings baptised from Cunliffe Street.
Parents, Christopher Seed and Margaret McNab, married Liverpool, 1790.

McNab may be the Scottish connection.

More to ponder concerning Christopher Seed and Margaret McNab.

Christopher Seed is recorded as being a Whitesmith, possible parents, James Seed, Whitesmith, and Ann Hilliard, married 1762 Liverpool.

Christopher and Margaret named their first son James.

Following on the thought of naming children after grandparents, second son born to Christopher Seed and Margaret McNab was Robert.

Looking at a possible Scottish connection, a Margaret McNab born 1769, Dull, Scotland, to Robert McNab and Janet McDonald.

Well done Bertie, those names are too much of a coincidence not to be correct, even if more pondering required.

Jane if you are looking back to Scotland, apart from Scotlandspeople website you might be interested in checking out the website Dustydocs where one of our Scottish members found a lot of detail for me a couple of years ago.

Hi Thanks to all for the suggestions, as always they are very helpful.
I have been absent from this forum for a while but have found out more about John McDonald Ashton and his ancestors. I think John McDonald Ashtons forebears may have been John Ashton (1798-1841) who married Margaret possibly Margaret Seed. John Ashtons father is possibly Joshua Ashton( 1774-1825 ) who married Isabella McDonald (1774- 1829). This would give the McDonald angle. John Ashton snr was a coffee dealer and died in a "gig" accident in 1842. John McDonald Ashton accidentally shot a friend in 1842 and the account in the papers is tragic. A John McDonald Ashton son of John Ashton coffee dealer married a Margaret Galley daughter of Thomas Galley (late of Salford according to the newspaper account) in 1848 in Port Elizabeth South Africa - I am now chasing this part of John McDonald Ashtons life!

Possible family connections (McDonald)
The marriage certificate above has witnesses, Thomas Galley, Hugh Oldham Shaw.
Hugh Oldham Shaw married Martha Anderson, 1841, Manchester, witness, Thomas Galley.
Thomas Galley was mentioned associated with the death of Louisa McDonald, 1929, South Africa. Louisa born Galley, parents, Thomas Galley, Elizabeth Galley, born Anderson.
Louisa Galley married William John McDonald, 1870, South Africa.
Possible marriage, Thomas Galley/Elizabeth Spencer, 1837, Manchester, Widow.
Previous marriage, Charles Spencer, Surgeon, Elizabeth Anderson, 1826, Manchester