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Mary Russell

By BernieN |
General Genealogy

I am hoping that someone may be able to help me regarding my grandmother. I have access to Ancestry however I have reached a dead end and don’t know what else I can do to find out more information. My grandmother was called Mary Russell and she was born around 1872-75. She married my grandfather Thomas Foster (born 1870) in  April 1894 in St. Peter’s, Seel street. On the marriage certificated he is stated as being age 24 and she is 19. Her father is stated as Michael Russell. I think I have then found them on the 1901 and the 1911 census, however their ages are only 1 year apart on both these census returns. I know these census returns are correct as the names and ages of the children are correct (Their son William born 1905 is my father). I don’t understand how the ages are not compatible and not sure how to find out any more information. I can remember my grandfather dying before my grandmother and I think she died in Belmont street hospital in the mid 1950s. Any help would be gratefully received including any suggestions on where else I can look for information. 

Ok here's  a first stab at this. 

Mary Russell b. Q4 1871 Liverpool 8b 124 mother's maiden name Gaughan.

Ann Gaughan married Michael Russell Q4 1861 Liverpool 8b 464.

1871 Census. 16 New Bird Street Liverpool. Michael Russell Hd 33 Married Mariner (Naval Reserve) Born Ireland, Ann wife 28 born Ireland; Catherine dau 7 scholar born Liverpool; Michael son 4 scholar born Liverpool; Thomas son 2 born Liverpool

1881 Census 38 Gordon St Liverpool.  Michael Russell Widower 56 (?) Dock labourer Born Ireland; Catherine dau 17 Housekeeper b. Liverpool; Michael son 13 scholar b. Liverpool; Thomas son 11 scholar b. Liverpool; Mary dau 9 b. Liverpool.

Ann Russell died age 36 Q2 1879 West Derby 8b 271.

I can't explain Michael's age discrepancy in 1881 other than an error on the part of the enumerator.

In 1891 Michael Russell Widower 52 Dock Labourer born Ireland living with daughter Catherine and her husband Michael Brown and their children at 29 Gordon St Liverpool

Many thanks Andy, I had seen an Ann gaughan on a suggestion on ancestry but I couldn't tie the information together. My concern that Mary's age was 5 years younger than Thomas in marriage certificate but only one year apart on the 2 census returns? Could this just be an error, I can't understand why she would state her ge a 19 when if that's her birth in 1871 she would be 23 when she married -which is one year less than Michael's which ties in with the census. Can you find a record of her death as I can't find anything even in her maiden name but I do remember being a child when she died and we visited her in Belmont Hospital. She was a catholic and all her children were baptised in the Catholic Church, however we were not close to my fathers side because my mother was not a catholic. Thanks again, I wish I knew more but as I said we were never very close. 

Sorry, I  forgot to add that Mary Russell also present in 1891 at 29 Gordon Street. Shown as single, sister, 20 domestic servant born Liverpool.

As for the anomaly of Mary's age at the time of her marriage, I haven't got a good explanation, but I think that the fact that her age in the 1901 census conforms with that given in the earlier censuses, is more persuasive. Unless I found the wrong Mary Foster in 1911 her age seems to have gone haywire again, at 36, when we would expect it to be 39 or thereabouts.

As for her death, without knowing a rough year, that's difficult as there are several possibles. There are quite a few Catholic burials around 1938 -1951 at Ford Cemetery

I do remember being a child when she died and we visited her in Belmont Hospital.

Could you estimate a date this happened, would she have been on the 1939 register and does anybody in the family have an idea of what area she would have lived in.  The same information would be useful in a search of Ford Cemetery which is where, like Andy, I would expect her RC burial to have taken place. 

Thanks Andy, yes that's her on the 1911 census living at Mount View as the children are correct. So yes the ages don't really add up but I'm sure I have the correct marriage record and the census returns are correct. I'm in contact with my cousin on this side who is older than me so she might remember more about her death but I think now it could have been late 1950s and she was living at Simpson street at the time of her death but she was in Belmont Hospital. My cousin said she was nearly 90 when she dies so going by the birth date you found she could have died as late as 1960/1?

 

Mary, many thanks for your reply, as far as I know she never lived outside the Liverpool one area all her life, this side of my family never left this area according to my cousin, who still lives there. Thomas I think died in the 1940s however not sure when. Although Mary was catholic Thomas, I believe was not. How would I search the Ford Cemetry records, are they on ancestry? 

I have just found a burial record for Thomas in may 1945 which I'm sure must be him as the last address given is Simpson street. 

I also found Thomas Foster, buried Anfield Cemetery, 42 Simpson St.

Jump to Mary Foster, buried, RC, Allerton Cemetery, 11 Oct, 1960, 29 Robinson St.

I believe Robinson St is incorrect and it should be 29 Robertson St.

If you track the family, 39 reg, John Foster, Mary Foster,  Simpson St,

Look at the Electoral Rolls for Simpson St through to 1960, the family moves around that time to 29 Robertson St.

I suspect John is the son, Mary, John's wife? and Mary Snr, Thomas's wife.

Deleted. Duplicated Bert's posting of image

Glad you found your way to the RC burials on Ancestry, the 1939 register is also on there and so if you search for some family members, such as mentioned by Bertie above in Simpson Street, it will give you the exact date of birth of both, hopefully on this they will have told the truth.  Using www.gro.gov.uk site you should be able to find the entry you need, maybe purchase a birth certificate at the cheaper .pdf file price, however more importantly it should confirm the mother's maiden name to help you work backwards with correct ages.

Thomas and Mary Foster are very likely the couple at Kitchen St, 39 reg.

Below a link to all the names mentioned,

On the 39 Reg, Mary gives her DOB, 16 Sept, 1871

I'm always amazed just how many people have their birthday one or two days out, but then birthdays didn't mean very much then. 

Those names definitely all tie in don't they, does that say Seel Street? and also mentions Old Swan?

 

Marriage of Thomas Foster, Emma Butler, 1920, Reg Office or Reg Att, St Oswald's, Old Swan

 

Thanks everyone, I didn't see your replies. My cousin said our nana died whilst they lived at Simpson street, she said they didn't move to Robertson street. The two certificates you showed Bert are indeed my family. Mary was married to Thomas and they had a son Thomas born 1894, who married Emma Butler. They also had a son John who married a Mary Fenner ( hence another Mary Foster) John and Mary Fenner had a daughter Mary too so there could have been 3 Mary fosters in the house at any time which makes it difficult to know who was who. My cousin thinks our nana died before 1960 but said she was 89 when she dies so 1960 seems about right. 

If you look at the Electoral Rolls, it appears that large parts of  Simpson Street disappear after 1960. I haven't got sufficient knowledge of the area to say why, possibly clearance for redevelopment?

John Foster who married Mary Fenner lived in Simpson Street, 1939 reg and various members of the Foster family lived there up to 1960.

 

In 1961, John Foster, Margaret Foster and Mary Foster are at 29 Robertson Street, It's difficult to tell from Electoral Rolls, I suspect this John Foster is the son of John Foster and Mary Fenner. He married? Margaret R Wilcock, 1950, Liverpool, the families lived next to each other in Simpson St?

 

I'm not sure when the Electoral Rolls are compiled, possibly within the previous year, so the Mary Foster buried 1960 I assume is the Mary Foster at 29 Robertson Street living with Grandson?

I'm not sure when the Electoral Rolls are compiled, possibly within the previous year, so the Mary Foster buried 1960 I assume is the Mary Foster at 29 Robertson Street living with Grandson?

According to "Electoral Registers 1832 -1948" by Jeremy Gibson published by the Family History Partnership 2008, for the period 1832 - 1918 the qualifying date for electoral registers was 15 or 31 July. However for the period 1832-1867 the register actually came into force in the same year (on 1 December or 30 November) whereas from 1867 onwards the date the register came into force was 1 January of the next year.  So a register dated 1860 was compiled in July 1860. As most people know, from 1918 up to 1948 there were two registers per year so there were two qualifying dates.