You are here

Thomas and Beatrice Heyes baptised 1888

15 posts / 0 new
Last post
lynne99
Thomas and Beatrice Heyes baptised 1888

These children of Roger Heyes and Alice Margaret Howard were baptised on the same day at St Alphonsus RC Church.  No date of birth is given.  The register   is marked "Sub- conditione"   I looked this up and it says baptised by the midwife.  There are no GRO records for these in 1888.  Could this be a baptism when they were older?  They did have a Thomas James Robert b 1879 baptised Rainford C of E and a Beatrice b 1884 no baptism found..  She may have died soon after her birth.  Please can anyone shed some light on these people.  Thanks  

bertieone

GRO reg,

Thomas James Roger Heyes, 1878, Prescot

Beatrice Heyes, 1884, Prescot

Both, mmn, Howard.

Bert

bertieone

1891 RG12 P3027 F64 P16

NameAgeRoger Heyes36Annie J Heyes26Thomas Heyes13Beatrice Heyes7Mary E Heyes7/12

Roger Heyes married Annie Jane Toole, 1888, West Derby

Bert

bertieone

Death

Name:Beatrice HeyesEstimated Birth Year:abt 1884Registration Year:1894Registration Quarter:Apr-May-JunAge at Death:10Registration District:Prescot

Bert

bertieone

Death, 1886

HEYES Alice 30 Ormskirk 8b548

Bert

bertieone

 

Name:Mother's Maiden Surname: Toole
HEYES, MARY  EMMA,   GRO Reference: 1890  D Quarter in WEST DERBY  Volume 08B  Page 315

Bert

bertieone

Catholic Baptism

Name:Maria Emma HayesGender:FemaleAge:0Birth Date:15 Sep 1890Baptism Date:24 Sep 1890Baptism Place:St John's, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Bert

bertieone

Kirkdale,

Name:Thomas James Roger HeyesAge:79Record Type:BurialBirth Date:abt 1879Death Date:abt 1958Burial Date:14 Jun 1958Burial Place:Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Bert

bertieone

Name:Thomas James Roger HayesBaptism Date:5 Jan 1879Parish:Rainford, Lancashire, England Father:Roger HayesMother:Alice Hayes

Bert

bertieone

"Sub- conditione" 

Is also used if a previous baptism is unknown,

Example being if Alice had baptised Thomas C of E and after her death Roger baptised them in the Catholic church, claiming or otherwise he didn't know of any baptism.

Bert

bertieone

Notice "P"  Private, probably done at home, perhaps baby ill and not expected to survive.

Image: 

Bert

lynne99

Thanks Bertieone.  Glad you helped me on this one.  Never thought that after his 2nd marriage he would get them rebaptised into the catholic church.  

I think I read somewhere that "p"  might also mean poor, so didn't have to pay for the baptism.

Thanks 

Lynne

bertieone

I think I read somewhere that "p"  might also mean poor, so didn't have to pay for the baptism.

If it was, nearly every baptism would have a "P" next to it, around that time.

Bert

MaryA
MaryA's picture

Sorry I'm late to the party, had a bit of a busy day :)  It's quite common for a P for private to be noted against a child that may have been baptised by either a family member or "midwife" if they were poorly, they wouldn't let the child die without being blessed.  The subsequent church baptism would be a welcoming into the religion and naming ceremony.

It's also not uncommon for group baptisms to take place, the above could be one reason, ie getting the older one "done" at the same time as the next, but also there was probably a cost issue involved.

MaryA

Member 6532

lynne99

Thanks Bertieone and Mary.