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Looking for a birth record of Ellen Kerfoot abt 1739

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Gwebb1
Looking for a birth record of Ellen Kerfoot abt 1739

Hi all

Ellen Kerfoot married George Lawrinson  at Walton-on-the-Hill in 1764 (previous Forum help has got me back to this point!)  For a while I had thought that Ellen was the daughter of Robert Kerfoot, a shoemaker, but it would have meant she was only 15 when she married as the baptism record I have for her is 1749 - her sister was born in 1738 and was also called Ellen but died the following year.

However, I recently found a burial record for Ellen showing she was buried at Walton-on-the-Hill (St Mary's?) in 1795.  This record confirms she was the wife of George of Lowhill so I know I am with the right family and that she was 56, giving a d.o.b of 1739.  However, the record also says she was the daughter of William Kerfoot - my record from Ancestry is rather unclear but the Lancs OnLine confirms these details.  Ancestry transcript has the father as Beorg Lawrenson and no mention of William Kerfoot if anyone is trying to access the record!

I have found a marriage between a William Kerfoot and Eliza Lawton in 1731 but no baptism record for Ellen although I thought I had seen one somewhere recently for 1736 - would have only been on FamilySearch, Ancestry or Lancs OnLine but I'm blowed if I can find it again, assuming it was there in the first place, of course!  Can anyone else see a suitable record?

As always, many thanks, 

Glen

 

 

 

 

bertieone

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Image: 

Bert

Gwebb1

Spot on, Bert - that's the one I must have seen when I wasn't really looking for it!

G

Gwebb1

Hi everyone.

Can anyone help me with this geographical question, please?  I know Low Hill is a road but does it/did it also refer to a district?

The birth record for Ellen Kerfoot's father in 1692 gives Low Hill as the family's abode; the marriage banns for her son in 1795 state he had been a resident of Low Hill for his whole life and when Ellen herself died in 1795, her burial record states she and her husband were 'of Low Hill'.

Did the family live in the same road for over a 100 years or is it a district that is being referred to?

Many thanks

Glen

bertieone

Low Hill Ward, example, local authority area for election purposes.

At those dates I suspect it would have been a district.

Bert

bertieone

British History online,

 

Image: 

Bert

Gwebb1

Thanks, Bert  that sets things in context and adds  little more to my knowledge!

G

MaryA
MaryA's picture

I have a Herdman print that might be useful, "Liverpool from Low Hill" with the Red Lion to the right and looking down the hill you can see the kilns of Lime Street in the distance.

Image: 

MaryA

Member 6532

Gwebb1

Great picture, Mary - hard to think of Liverpool being that rural!  Is there a date on the picture?  Might be one in the bottom corner but I can't quite make it out.

Ellen Kerfoot married into my problematic Lawrinson family!

G.

MaryA
MaryA's picture

No date on it - had to get the magnifying glass out for that!  I'm suspecting the end of the 1700s/early 1800s.  

I have a Will for Luke Lunt who died in 1802 that states

"I direct that the House in New Street, belonging to me, shall be sold to discharge the same and the surplus of that money to be laid out in the improvements & repairs of my House I now live in called the Red Lion at Lowhill."

There are other Herdman prints out there dated 1857 but these appear to be more built up.

MaryA

Member 6532

Gwebb1

While researching Ellen Kerfoot, I came across a granddaughter I didn't know she had and wondered if anyone can spot the baptism record.

She is: Susanna Lawrinson, daughter of William and Margaret (nee Johnson) and she was buried in the church yard at St Mary's Walton-on-the-Hill on 16 Jan 1811.  Her age is gven very precisely as '2 years 8 months'.  Her siblings seem to have all been christened at St Nicholas's.

Ironically, I am just as interested in hearing from people who have a look and draw a blank on this one - for ages, I have been looking for 2 other births connected with Wm and Margaret that have proved elusive so if Susanna's baptism record doesn't turn-up, it could indicate the family had moved away from Liverpool for a few years.  Upholland has cropped up in relation to the other 2 elusive births.

Looking forward to hearing what crops up.

Glen

bertieone

No luck, Glen, either never had one or records not online. Perhaps they may appear in the future.

Bert

MaryA
MaryA's picture

I'm going to suggest looking at the Childwall and Huyton areas, purely because there are many burials by the name of Lawrenson (et al)  in All Saints, Childwall so the family origins may have been from there and mother may have gone home to her own mother for help, also I've come across marriages and baptisms etc. in St Michaels, Huyton.

MaryA

Member 6532

bertieone

Bottom Left

Image: 

Bert

Gwebb1

I have found a copy of the Herdman print giving a date of 1843 but this would be when it was completed, not the time it represents, which, as you say Mary, I think would be much earlier - round about the time I am researching!

By the way, Mary, I have come across an Elizabeth Lunt who was living at 21 Kew Street in 1865 - not one of yours is she?

G

MaryA
MaryA's picture

Elizabeth Lunt who was living at 21 Kew Street in 1865 - not one of yours is she?

No Glen, but thank you for thinking of me. 

MaryA

Member 6532

Gwebb1

Another piece of general information needed please:

Most of Ellen's grandchildren whom I have been researching were baptized at St Nicholas but 2 (William in 1810 and Elizabeth in 1812) were baptized at St Peter's and St Nicholas - am I correct in thinking this was a different church than the St Nicholas by the Pier Head?  I tried googling it but I am still mot 100% certain I know the answer!

G.

bertieone

Liverpool St Peter is an Ecclesiastical Parish in the county of Lancashire, created about 1704 from Liverpool St Peter and St Nicholas Ecclesiastical Parish; located on Church Street.

Bert

Gwebb1

Thanks, Bert. 

Just to check I have understood correctly, I have a record from FamilySearch stating that Mary Ann Lawrenson was christened at 'St Nicholas' in 1802 and a record that shows her brother William was christened at ' St Peter and St Nicholas' in 1810 so would they both have been christened at the same church or would Mary Ann have been christened in the church by the Pier Head and William christened at the church on Church Street?

Glen

MaryA
MaryA's picture

Is there any chance you could give a link to William's baptism, it could well be a mistranscription and we might find out the truth if we check the original image.

I also haven't come across the entry for Mary Ann in 1802.

MaryA

Member 6532

Gwebb1

Just thinking - am I being a bit thick about this, Bert?  Are you telling me that 'St Nicholas' and 'St Peter and St Nicholas' actually refer to parishes rather than specific buildings and that the children may have been christened in one of several churches in those parishes?

G

bertieone

Bishop’s transcripts for St. Nicholas’ Church, Liverpool, 1604-1867 Author: Church of England. St. Nicholas’ Church (Liverpool, Lancashire); Church of England. St. Peter’s Church (Liverpool, Lancashire)

See if you can find Mary Ann, here

Bert

bertieone

Bishop’s transcripts for St. Nicholas’ Church, Liverpool, 1604-1867 Author: Church of England. St. Nicholas’ Church (Liverpool, Lancashire); Church of England. St. Peter’s Church (Liverpool, Lancashire)

Bert

bertieone

https://www.parishmouse.co.uk/

above links won't work, you can find here.

Bert

bertieone

Bert

bertieone

Bert

bertieone

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Image: 

Bert

bertieone

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Image: 

Bert

Gwebb1

The records Bert has posted (LAN OPC?) suggest Mary Ann was baptised at St Nicholas Church and William was baptised at St Peter's - have I made the right deduction?

The references that I found confusing were on Familysearch - I had put in a general search for children with parents William Lawrinson and Margaret Johnson and the references to 'St Nicholas' and 'St Peter and St Nicholas' came up on 'Search Results' - the source was given as England Births and Christenings 1538-1975.   The record I subsequently ran-off from Ancestry for Mary Ann was Liverpool, Lancs, England, Baptisms and Burials 1659-1812 and this stated she had been baptised in the 'Parish of St Nicholas' while the record for Wm (Lancashire, England Baptism, marriages and Burials 1538-1812) just says he was born in Liverpool.

The LAN OPC transcription is much more straightforward - lesson learned: check all records even if you think you have all the information you need!

Thanks again, folks.

Glen

bertieone

The records Bert has posted (LAN OPC?) suggest Mary Ann was baptised at St Nicholas Church and William was baptised at St Peter's - have I made the right deduction?

 

Yes I would think so.

Bert

Gwebb1

Thanks again, folks.  I think I have probably gone as far as I can with Ellen Kerfoot for the moment although I still have her 3 grandchildren who end up in Liverpool but for whom I cannot find baptism records (Elizabeth, Sarah and Susanna).  All were born between about 1805 and 1808 and I think the answer probably lies in Upholland, the place named as their birthplace by Elizabeth and Sarah on various censuses and as I cannot find any Liverpool records for my Lawrinson family for those years, I am surmising they could well have been in Upholland during this time.  A research challenge for another time, I think!

Glen